Before we both forget, go ahead and join the community here at Get Real, Man. It might not up your apple game, but then again, it might. I’m excited to introduce you all to Dave Pidancet. Dave is a fantastic writer, an even better father, and a friend. When I said I was looking for additional contributors and he showed me what he had written, I jumped at the opportunity to share his words with you all. I think they’ll strike a cord. If you like it, let Dave know in the comments and connect with him.
Hi Latham. Loved this, Dave. Made me think about the division of labor, as always. I think of them as swim lanes - we work better with clear dividing lines. The ones that are fuzzy are the ones that create tension. Especially during those pressure cooker early years of kids. Thanks for putting some more language around them.
Hey Parker! Good to see you. We're overdue for a catch up!
I feel like a lot of the swim lanes are fuzzily divided in my house. Maybe that's Dave's point: that if I don't see them, they're actually clear and I'm just not sacrificing. But we do our best to discuss with each other what needs to get done and divide and conquer. Because as you said, the early years of kids is such a pressure cooker.
What an illuminating essay. As I was reading it I was thinking my wife and I have a pretty good balance of the invisible labor - with both of us working full time. By the time I finished, I realized I don't come close to her and can do more. So, thank you on that front.
Also, what really resonated for me and I loved was this: "But if you’re not sacrificing something, it’s likely your partner is." I wrote a piece last spring titled, The Invisible Authors The Visible (about heart) - and this essay on invisible labor is a wholly new take.
It will change our household dynamic. Thank you. And my wife does too :)
So happy to hear it inspired some reflection! Best of luck to you and your wife as you shift things around, I really think it will pay off for you. Thanks for sharing.
This is fantastic -- thanks to you and to Dave. It reminds me of a recent episode of Freakonomics, which I'll share below. There should be a requirement for couples to go through counseling together to discuss these issues before they get married. It's an enormous source of misunderstanding and resentment. I won't get into my own experience of it here, but a lot of fairly progressive people struggle much more than they think with swapping breadwinner roles and reaching some kind of understanding about invisible labor. Dave is right that beating the previous generation of men is a laughably low bar and won't move the needle an inch. But I think many well-intentioned men still struggle to see where the actual goalposts are. I've joked (but not really) that some progress could be made on this front if invisible labor were quantified, if gains were celebrated, and if men had some way of knowing how they stacked up against other men. That isn't the standard that a partner cares about -- and some of this is relative to each relationship -- but men need to feel that they're actually gaining ground. There could be value to tapping into their competitive spirit. Too often men doing invisible labor are not celebrated for progress they make and penalized by ongoing expectations of traditional breadwinning. For my own part, positive affirmation and objective measures of progress do a lot to incentivize this important work.
That's one of my favorite podcasts, I'll have to check out that episode. Thanks for reading and I agree with you 100%. I felt like it took me a year as a stay-at-home dad to come to terms with our swapped breadwinner roles, and I know many of my fellow stay-at-home dads struggle with that as well. Many, I think, are reluctant to admit it!
Thanks Josh. Dave gets all the credit for writing such a great piece.
I really like the idea of tapping into the competitive spirit. There is a reason sales orgs use a leaderboard and it's updated in real time. I think there's not a lot of awareness among most men of what it really takes. It's not like we saw how to do it growing up. As you both highlighted (and I 100% agree with), beating the previous generation is laughably easy.
Thanks for sharing Dave's humor and wisdom Latham. Excellent piece. I'm in the same camp as James with having some lightbulbs go off re the unpaid labor and how much of it I thought I was contributing to. This is a perfect addition to the Real Man conversation. I always look forward to your articles Latham, but now you have me also looking forward to who else you might curate here. Hats off to you and Dave both.
Dave, this was great. I always knew that there was more to housework than the actual chores that we divided with my wife. Having a name for it helps a lot. Thanks to you and Latham for opening up Get Real, Man to this contribution.
Wow I think the author just came up with a whole area for coaching. He basically wrote an article on how to coach new stay at home dads or husbands who can't figure out alone how share the load of family. This is probably a great niche and one that will only grow.
This is another example of someone with spatial giftedness. Not surprising that he, a writer, has this.
He can see between the lines of societies messages and in that space, an opportunity for making a living while making the world a better place. Win for this dad and author.
Thank you! Very interesting idea about coaching. My fellow stay-at-home dads and I certainly feel the need for connection and help, but it can be difficult to find other men who "get it."
You are a writer. You are creating advertisement for it with everything you write. It just goes in your byline and gets people thinking.
The future will belong to the creatives. Those who are not 20s and younger are the perfect age to get started now to prepare for the mass exit from the system in the following 10/20 years.
I have started many companies. I don't fit in the system. My sensitivity is too high.
It always takes 2 years to find out if the company is going to rise or fall. So you can't tell until you have invested for 2 years.
But......
The system is collapsing. I am not saying it will die completely but the cost of staying in it will be too high for most's mental health. At least 20% (this is the percentage of the population that are highly sensitive) of the population will be rolling out of working for others to working for themselves in the next 5 years. You are the Sherpa for those who come behind.
The creatives create the future. When the present sucks it is healthier to focus on what is ahead.
“Acts of service” Is my top love language so you better believe I devoured this like brain candy ... TOO good Dave!! From this breadwinning wife, thank you for spreading the word! And it doesn’t have to be thankless. I know I need to do a better job showing my husband a bit more appreciation for the invisible tasks that get crossed off that invisible list I don’t know about. Latham thanks for passing the mic!
As a single parent who did most of the cooking and cleaning even before being a single parent, this certainly resonates. Also, dude, just tape a label on the apple. 😂 I kid.
It's a thought-provoking piece that sheds light on the often overlooked but essential work that goes into maintaining a functioning household and family life. The journey into handling the "invisible labor" at home as a stay-at-home dad is both relatable and eye-opening. Thank you for sharing this enlightening piece with your readers.
Thank you, Dave. The comments below are as rich as the essay itself. Your insights, when layered with the Nobel Prize award to Claudia Goldin on "advanced our understanding of women’s labour market outcomes", show how layered this topic is.
The apple story was so familiar, and had me laughing along at the memory of how I would twist myself into knots!
Hi Latham. Loved this, Dave. Made me think about the division of labor, as always. I think of them as swim lanes - we work better with clear dividing lines. The ones that are fuzzy are the ones that create tension. Especially during those pressure cooker early years of kids. Thanks for putting some more language around them.
Thank you, Parker. Definitely feeling the pressure, but we'll keep swimming.
Hey Parker! Good to see you. We're overdue for a catch up!
I feel like a lot of the swim lanes are fuzzily divided in my house. Maybe that's Dave's point: that if I don't see them, they're actually clear and I'm just not sacrificing. But we do our best to discuss with each other what needs to get done and divide and conquer. Because as you said, the early years of kids is such a pressure cooker.
Happy to chat anytime - loving the newsletter.
What an illuminating essay. As I was reading it I was thinking my wife and I have a pretty good balance of the invisible labor - with both of us working full time. By the time I finished, I realized I don't come close to her and can do more. So, thank you on that front.
Also, what really resonated for me and I loved was this: "But if you’re not sacrificing something, it’s likely your partner is." I wrote a piece last spring titled, The Invisible Authors The Visible (about heart) - and this essay on invisible labor is a wholly new take.
It will change our household dynamic. Thank you. And my wife does too :)
I had the same thought James. When Dave sent it to me, I was like "I'm doing great." And then I finished it and I thought "Am I doing great?"
I can't wait to check out your piece now.
So happy to hear it inspired some reflection! Best of luck to you and your wife as you shift things around, I really think it will pay off for you. Thanks for sharing.
This is fantastic -- thanks to you and to Dave. It reminds me of a recent episode of Freakonomics, which I'll share below. There should be a requirement for couples to go through counseling together to discuss these issues before they get married. It's an enormous source of misunderstanding and resentment. I won't get into my own experience of it here, but a lot of fairly progressive people struggle much more than they think with swapping breadwinner roles and reaching some kind of understanding about invisible labor. Dave is right that beating the previous generation of men is a laughably low bar and won't move the needle an inch. But I think many well-intentioned men still struggle to see where the actual goalposts are. I've joked (but not really) that some progress could be made on this front if invisible labor were quantified, if gains were celebrated, and if men had some way of knowing how they stacked up against other men. That isn't the standard that a partner cares about -- and some of this is relative to each relationship -- but men need to feel that they're actually gaining ground. There could be value to tapping into their competitive spirit. Too often men doing invisible labor are not celebrated for progress they make and penalized by ongoing expectations of traditional breadwinning. For my own part, positive affirmation and objective measures of progress do a lot to incentivize this important work.
https://freakonomics.com/podcast/a-new-nobel-laureate-explains-the-gender-pay-gap-replay/
That's one of my favorite podcasts, I'll have to check out that episode. Thanks for reading and I agree with you 100%. I felt like it took me a year as a stay-at-home dad to come to terms with our swapped breadwinner roles, and I know many of my fellow stay-at-home dads struggle with that as well. Many, I think, are reluctant to admit it!
Thanks Josh. Dave gets all the credit for writing such a great piece.
I really like the idea of tapping into the competitive spirit. There is a reason sales orgs use a leaderboard and it's updated in real time. I think there's not a lot of awareness among most men of what it really takes. It's not like we saw how to do it growing up. As you both highlighted (and I 100% agree with), beating the previous generation is laughably easy.
Thanks for sharing Dave's humor and wisdom Latham. Excellent piece. I'm in the same camp as James with having some lightbulbs go off re the unpaid labor and how much of it I thought I was contributing to. This is a perfect addition to the Real Man conversation. I always look forward to your articles Latham, but now you have me also looking forward to who else you might curate here. Hats off to you and Dave both.
Thank you for the kind words, and glad it resonated with you, Rick!
Thanks Rick. This ended up being a lot of fun to do. If you ever feel like sharing one of your stories, I'd love to feature it.
Thank you Latham!
Dave, this was great. I always knew that there was more to housework than the actual chores that we divided with my wife. Having a name for it helps a lot. Thanks to you and Latham for opening up Get Real, Man to this contribution.
Thanks for reading, Martin!
Glad you enjoyed it Martin. It's amazing what having a name for something can open up.
Wow I think the author just came up with a whole area for coaching. He basically wrote an article on how to coach new stay at home dads or husbands who can't figure out alone how share the load of family. This is probably a great niche and one that will only grow.
This is another example of someone with spatial giftedness. Not surprising that he, a writer, has this.
He can see between the lines of societies messages and in that space, an opportunity for making a living while making the world a better place. Win for this dad and author.
Thank you! Very interesting idea about coaching. My fellow stay-at-home dads and I certainly feel the need for connection and help, but it can be difficult to find other men who "get it."
You are a writer. You are creating advertisement for it with everything you write. It just goes in your byline and gets people thinking.
The future will belong to the creatives. Those who are not 20s and younger are the perfect age to get started now to prepare for the mass exit from the system in the following 10/20 years.
I have started many companies. I don't fit in the system. My sensitivity is too high.
It always takes 2 years to find out if the company is going to rise or fall. So you can't tell until you have invested for 2 years.
But......
The system is collapsing. I am not saying it will die completely but the cost of staying in it will be too high for most's mental health. At least 20% (this is the percentage of the population that are highly sensitive) of the population will be rolling out of working for others to working for themselves in the next 5 years. You are the Sherpa for those who come behind.
The creatives create the future. When the present sucks it is healthier to focus on what is ahead.
So many mic drops in here Dave! So good! And I love what you’re teaching your sons. Invaluable.
Thank you!
“Acts of service” Is my top love language so you better believe I devoured this like brain candy ... TOO good Dave!! From this breadwinning wife, thank you for spreading the word! And it doesn’t have to be thankless. I know I need to do a better job showing my husband a bit more appreciation for the invisible tasks that get crossed off that invisible list I don’t know about. Latham thanks for passing the mic!
Thank you! And give your husband a fist bump for me.
Ha!! DONE!
As a single parent who did most of the cooking and cleaning even before being a single parent, this certainly resonates. Also, dude, just tape a label on the apple. 😂 I kid.
Lol... too soon. And yes, as a single parent, you don't get to choose: you get every role. Thanks for reading!
It's a thought-provoking piece that sheds light on the often overlooked but essential work that goes into maintaining a functioning household and family life. The journey into handling the "invisible labor" at home as a stay-at-home dad is both relatable and eye-opening. Thank you for sharing this enlightening piece with your readers.
Thank you, Dave. The comments below are as rich as the essay itself. Your insights, when layered with the Nobel Prize award to Claudia Goldin on "advanced our understanding of women’s labour market outcomes", show how layered this topic is.
The apple story was so familiar, and had me laughing along at the memory of how I would twist myself into knots!